Children at a crop?

Do you think it's acceptable to bring kids to a crop?

Let me clarify. It's a monthly Saturday crop at a hall, and it's been run for 10 years. I'm a relative newbie at only 2 years' membership. One of the other ladies has an 8-yo DD who she is bringing along more and more. She's a lovely child; quiet, cheerful, generous and sharing, well-behaved and really into crafting. She always makes things, and thoroughly enjoys getting into a delicious mess. And she has accidents with paint and spilled drinks, like any child that age.

Everyone there loves kids, and nobody minds sharing the child-minding while her mother scraps. We all understand that it's hard for single parents to get child-care. I've said nothing, and have no intention of saying anything, but I think I'm the only one who doesn't want kids to be around while I've got a lot of expensive kit spread about. I don't want tea spilled all over my bags, and I don't like opening the toilet door and getting wet paint on me, and and then finding a purple flood on the floor. I don't like feeling that I ought to bring my own cleaning equipment to mop up messes (because the hall doesn't supply it).

I sound like a proper Grinch, don't I? OK, end of vent...

Nope...you're not a Grinch.
I wouldn't want a child around me when I am scrapping either! Even my own! LOL!
Besides the danger of her messing up your stuff, I see a crop as a way to get away from everything, including children, and a time to really relish in the creating; really enjoying the hobby! And as a parent, I'm surprised the parent of the child doesn't realize this! I mean I love my kids, most of the time (kidding, kidding) but I'm not in denial when it comes to the fact that not everyone wants my kids around, especially in an environment like that!
With that being said, however, it looks like you are the minority at your particular place of cropping so I wouldn't say anything. But it would be a shame if you have to give it up.

I don't think you sound like a Grinch. Most people go to crops (IMHO) to get away and just enjoy a girl's night out. Although I totally understand the challenges of child care...we all face challenges of one kind or another...it seems that if this is a regular thing, she could try to find someone to watch her child...especially if she is the only child there. I'm sure she has a good time getting into things, but it sounds like it is a little more than that. Of course, if no one says anything, then nothing changes. It's hard because you don't want hurt feelings, but I think the bottom line is that everyone comes to enjoy their time away to scrap and shouldn't feel forced to "child mind". Just my two cents.

Yeah it really bugs me that people have kids and don't realize they can't do all the things they once did! They think, oh I'll just take my kid w/ me. Sorry there are places where it's either inappropriate or just a nuisance to others.
For example, when people take babies/little kids to an adult movie! Ughhhh! Hey, if you can't find a baby sitter, stay home! Let us who don't have kids or were able to make arrangements enjoy the movie in peace! I have 2 kids, now 12 & 19, and I never did that kind of stuff! If I couldn't make other arrangements, I didn't go. That's part of being a parent. If you can't handle it, don't have them! Ughhh!
LOL! Sorry for the rant but you got me all worked up! Hahahahahahahahah!

While it is wonderful that the mom is encouraging her DD to get into this hobby, I feel like the others so far, there's a time and a place. This not being one of them!!
Craft with her at home or at a friend's house who may also have a child.
We go to events like these to get away from the everyday distractions we face at home.

I am incredibly intertwined with my DGD's and even I know this is a no go!
I babysit my youngest DGD (6) and I even turn down lunch with a friend of 25yrs because of this very thing.
Just because I think they're the cutest. most adorable things ever, NEWS FLASH....not everyone does!! When we lunch I always have to clarify that I have to bring my DGD with, she just sits there with my phone and watches Netflix or plays games, no trouble at all, but I still feel bad bringing her! Just for the reason that it is suppose to be our time to hang out and chat!

I don't think you're a grinch at all. I wonder how many in your group feel the same way and nobody wants to say anything. I personally wouldn't go to a crop if there were kids around. I don't think it's an appropriate place for kids and I wouldn't want to have to worry about making sure my craft blades/etc are out of reach and some of my other more expensive/hazardous things.

I agree with everyone else. I would be bothered by someone bringing a child to a crop. You would think she would notice that hers is the only child there and get the hint. Most places I have gone have firm rules of no children allowed.
Can you ask to not be seated by them?

Unfortunately we all have "our" tables, and if I changed it would really notice - and after the tea incident it would be obvious why! Besides, if someone else has to sit next to them then they get the tea spilled and that isn't fair either.

Luckily the purple paint washed out of my sleeve and the tea stains sponged off my bag. I just couldn't help thinking what if the next stain didn't come out, or my stuff got damaged, you know?

I probably won't stop going, because after the first year of being unproductive and dissatisfied, I've worked out a winning formula now. I shall carry on going and just have an occasional whinge, I expect! I might just have a little chat with the others to find out whether it's just me, but the mother can be a bit defensive and if anything was said, she'd stop going. That's not what I want. She needs her break as well, and the little one loves it. I just have to put up with it.

I am on the fence about this topic. I would say that it would depend on the policies of the event, if there is a policy that states no kids , then no kids or babies should be there.

In the case of the child that you mention, it sounds she is well behaved and loves to craft and doesn't make any more mess than an adult. She would be the reason that people would allow children to attend such an event. I would suggest that you request not be seated near the child and her mom.

No policy. It's just a group of about 8-10 of us who get together and share crafting. It's super-informal. As long as everyone pays their way for the hire of the hall and helps to set up and put away as best they can, that's about the extent of the rules.

She is. She's a great kid, well brought up and not really any trouble. I'm not sure about no more mess than an adult - she makes a LOT of mess! But that's normal for an 8-yo. I'm not criticising her at all. This is 100% my problem.

I do not go to crops where there are children. Period.

I am a teacher. I love teaching and being around kids…in school. Perhaps if you moved the mom might wonder why. You have a good reason. It is okay. It would be uncomfortable at first, but politely being worried about your craft is totally acceptable. I also know that cute adorable eight year olds are still children and being around a group of 8-10 adult women is not always appropriate. Women talk. Kids should not be privy to hours and hours of that discussion. They are kids. I have been in this situation and I have a hard time remembering to be kid appropriate when not at work. I don't envy you. This is a tough situation.

• bonprof Said:

Amen to that. Crops are an "adults only" thing, maybe with older teenagers who can be responsible. But it's insane that this current generation thinks their kids are welcome EVERYWHERE. If you're a Grinch, then so am I.

• 950nancy Said:

I was gonna say this too

I don't know if it's really 100% your problem. You're not saying she's a bad kid, just that she IS a kid. I wouldn't expect, at a crop, to have tea spilled on my bag, or to have paint on doorknobs and a flood on the floor in the bathroom. I just think that sounds messier than most adults. Especially in a crop situation... I haven't been to many but the ones I've been to, the people there are usually overly conscious about at least keeping their mess confined to their own areas, and are very careful about spills and keeping common areas tidy. I wonder if there's a way to subtly hint about it without causing an issue, like coming up with a list of common rules, or have a group project where everyone decorates their own cup that has one of those screw-on lids with a straw? hehe

While I do agree with what everyone has said,add me to the grinch list :D, it doesn't sound like there is much you can do about the situation with it being such a casual arrangement.
I specially agree with 950nancy about kids being around adult conversations.
However, in view of the fact that you can't change the situation, I wonder if this would help.
IF the little girl had a nice well behaved little friend who also like to scrap, prehaps a separate table away from the main group, could be set up for them, kids corner....
She would have company, and be away from the group, avoiding spills, overhearing conversations etc etc.
But the mum has to take full responsibility for both of them.....and one friend only for the little girl !!!!!
Of course the hall would have to be big enough....

I didn't even think about the conversation. There is occasional mild language, and the topics are probably not suitable for an 8-yo - there can be a lot of moaning! I shall file that away for the future.

Thank you for giving me an extended perception of this. I knew you would - you guys rock.

You all split the cost of renting the hall--does she pay for her AND her daughter or just herself? That's just a thought that popped into my head.
I agree with you--I wouldn't feel as comfortable if there were an 8 year old there and I'd think the mom would realize she's basically taking advantage of everyone's politeness.
You said she's a single parent so I do have sympathy for her in that regard--it's possible she just doesn't have an option for child care.
I probably wouldn't stop going but it would be nice if you were able to change seats.

I am a HUGE advocate of involving children in crafting, but I would never bring an 8 year old child to a crop, no matter how well-behaved, unless children were specifically encouraged to come. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with a 16 year old being there, but that's about my minimum.

You all take turns babysitting while the mother scraps? And she spills things and makes a mess?

That would be enough for me to either stop going or move my seat. If the mother asked me why, I would tell her very nicely that I didn't want anything spilled on my things. (It's obviously happened before.) And I certainly wouldn't be babysitting someone else's child while the mother scrapped.

I love kids too, but when I go to a crop, I go to relax and be with grown-ups. Like others have said, when my children were little, if I couldn't get someone to watch them, I didn't go. That is part of being a parent - single parents included. I guess I sound like a Grinch too, but that's the way I feel.

I am a little on the fence too! I have only been to two crops ever and both had 0 children! I am like 90% sure no kids should be allowed and I am sure she is as sweet as can be I have a 9 yr old who likes to craft with me but I would NEVER take her to a crop unless the rules allowed it.
Your certaninly NOT a Grinch!

No fence here, in my opinion children do not belong at crops. Period. I don't know what is available in the UK, but most craft stores here that offer classes and crops include kid friendly outings.
Yes, an adult is just as capable of having an accident, thus creating a mess, but I think the likelihood is greater with a kid, and frankly not all people are comfortable around kids or want to spend their relaxing hours around a kid.

No, I don't think so. I am part of a group that host monthly crop retreats and we don't allow kids. For most of the women that come it's there only 'girl time' away and they want that to be stress free and uninterrupted due to children. There is just a time and a place for everything.

I'm almost sure the mother doesn't pay extra for her to be there. That hasn't been discussed with the group, but the treasurer would make those decisions.

She shares a table with her mother, and she starts off sitting quietly and playing with her own stuff. After an hour or so she finishes what she's doing, or needs to stop and wait for it to dry, and she goes wandering around seeing what everyone else is doing.

We all chat with her, and maybe let her try things out, like winding the Cuttlebug handle, or choosing paint for gelli plates, or lending her a punch and giving her some scraps and showing her what to do. We keep an eye on her when she uses the communal heat gun, so that she doesn't burn the hall down or blow people's drying work off the table. We take her to the bathroom to wash paint off herself after she's decided to make hand prints and coats her arms up to the elbows in purple! Honestly, she has a ball there! Her mother gets on with her own pages, knowing that the child is safe.

It's the village bringing up the child, you know? And in this day and age, that has gone out of the window. It's important, and that's why I feel like a Grinch!

I feel strongly about the conversation bit...she shouldn't be hearing everything that is said.

But if its not going to change and she continues to come, maybe you should ask about a few rules for her? Like no drinks on the table or no excessively messy stuff like paint be allowed? You might get the evil eye from the mom for a few weeks but it will pass and I think the other ladies will be silently grateful.

Ms Rosey, you make some valid points, and this is going to make me sound like the ultimate grinch, but why should the village help raise the child? I made a conscious deliberate decision to not have children, so why would I want to assist in raising someone else's child? Perhaps there are women there who are done raising their children and now feel put upon when they just want to relax?
Certainly I can sympathize with the single mother wanting to spend time with friends, but she should find someplace else for the child to go. Just my opinion, no hate mail please!

RedSquirrel, after reading your posts and your reactions to other suggestions, I think it comes down to you not wanting your things messed up, and also not wanting to make the mother/child stop coming to the crop.

Here is what I would suggest. Move to another seat. You mentioned that being an obvious move. So be obvious, but talk directly to the mother. Tell her that you don't want her to stop coming, but that you are concerned for your work after the spills you have experienced. If you are direct and open, there shouldn't be any misunderstandings about what you are doing and why.

What if you take the scrapping out of the situation for a minute. What other hobby would a male or female have that 8-10 of them get together and instead of working on their hobby, they get to entertain an 8 year old girl with the fear that she might ruin what they have worked on. In the village, very few people would be okay with it. There is a time and place for people who want to get away and not worry about things getting ruined, their time being wasted, and not having to be concerned about what they say. If the mom doesn't have family to help, may she could time swap with another mother who would love day to herself. My neighborhood used to do that all of the time.

First time poster here. Nope totally with you on this. No Kids at crops! everyone has their own reason for going to these kinds of things and shouldn't feel like they have to "babysit" because a child is there. plus they don't understand that my pens and stickers aren't toys. even OLDER children (IE young and preteens) don't understand this. My grandmother is insisting on bringing my 13 year old cousin with us to an upcoming crop and I can't talk her out of it. she's come once before and I felt like it really rained on our parade. my grandma feels like it's a good way to spend time with both of us but I just feel like Im being robbed of my time.

Hi Red Squirrel,
After reading your post explaining how it all plays out, I think it might be a good idea if the little girl brought more stuff to entertain herself with, after she tires of her scrapbooking... so she wasn't hovering around everyone else's work area......ipad for games & music with earplugs, some books to read or colour in, paint by numbers, playdough, paper dolls, beading? It's been a long time since my daughter was 8.....so I am not sure what they are into....prehaps Mum could bring a beanbag for her to curl up in while she reads etc......surely Mum could come up with some ideas too!

I don't think her mom sees the problem. If she is pretty well behaved, her mom is probably just thankful that other women will entertain her. That just isn't right. Some people believe that their kids should go everywhere they go. I never felt that way, so I don't get it. I do get that other people think that though.

Autie, that sounds like a really long day for you and the thirteen year old.

I attend a monthly crop also. We are a group of adult women but once in a while one mom brings her 10 and 14 year old girls. The girls are super sweet but at times it makes me cringe b/c the ladies at the crop can be a bit "racy" with their talk. Not extremely inappropriate for 10 and 14 yr. olds but still not entirely G rated either! That would be the main issue I would have with children at a crop...not being able to feel free to have adult discussions.

btw...you do not at all sound like a grinch, I would feel the exact same way! crop time is sacred!

No kids at crops.

I'm not really a fan of children in *any* setting, that's just me. Husband and I are awkward around children. I just don't "get" them. So I wouldn't want them around a crop either. But I guess if everyone else is dealing with the child, she's not disruptive (which is rare), then there's not much to be done. I fully admit I'm a grinch. I'd just not come anymore if there were children constantly present.

Ditto! I'm not and have never been a kid person, and I doubt at my advanced age I will change my perspective, lol!

I haven't got any children, and I find them hard work, but that's because I'm not used to them. I don't NOT want them around. I adore my niece and nephew to distraction, but I have to prepare myself mentally when I see them, and I'm absolutely exhausted afterwards. If it's a kids' or mixed event then I'm fine with that as long as I know so I can get myself into the right frame of mind. If it's a grown-ups' event and there are children present then my behaviour, mindset and attitude has to change, and that's what throws me I think.

I'm not sure I possess the proper mindset to be around kids, Rosey, LOL! Good thing you do since there are times you are around them.

Personally, I don't want to attend crops where children are present. If that were my group, then I'd prob attend less and less frequently, especially since it doesn't seem to bother anyone else.I think most people see crops as a kind of adult 'escape' activity from the normal routines/responsibilities of life, so children present would sort of infringe on that escapist quality.

I love my daughter, but wouldn't take her to a crop....... I let her play with scraps and my cheaper pens - but the other supplies are mine!!

You pay to be there.....you should enjoy your time. IMO children shouldn't drink anything but water from an open cup in a table situation.

I think she does drink water - the tea was her mother's, but they share a table. I doubt it will happen again after that little disaster! I have a sealed Starbucks coffee container for my tea just in case, because accidents happen, but the others use the cups provided by the hall.

Well, we have no crop in August because the hall is closed, but I will review things in September. We have to pay the annual subs in September so I'll have to decide what to do. We can pay per attendance, it's just more expensive that way, and I'm never going to know who will be going in advance.

I go to a crop at my church where my daughter was invited. I pay the full fee for her and the only one she disturbs is me. She comes to work on her pages or cards and while she breaks all my crop rules (interrupts me, borrows my things, encroaches on my space, etc) I make sure she doesn't disturb anyone else. At the last one she was very productive but gave me a guilt trip when I got home for making her leave early (she was still having fun but I figured 5 pm was late enough for her)

I am in the no kids at crops camp too. I have a scrappy group that I crop with regularly and that's one of our rules. My dd is 14 and I know she would be bored and the conversations aren't always appropriate, so there is no way I would want her at one of our crops. I can't imagine even thinking of bringing a younger child.

Could your group have a couple crops per year that were mommy and me crops (in addition to the regular crops)? Then folks could decide if they wanted to crop around kids but still have their adult only crops?

Wow! Over 40 women have responded to this thread. No one wants to pay good money to go to a crop with kids. It's just not appropriate.

I think children do not belong at a crop. I'm sure we all like children, just that it's really not an appropriate place for them. No one wants their supplies or projects messed up, etc. If child-care is not an affordable option, the mom could likely swap childcare with a friend.

• RedSquirrel Said:

no it's not... It is her mother's problem to clean up after her child. Please, next time the child makes a mess (like in the bathroom) get the mom and tell her her daughter's mess in the bathroom needs cleaning up. The other scrappers, you included, should not do it. Bad habit to start.

Honestly I would have a problem with it. As a mom when I get free time to pursue my own passion or even just relax it is a treat. I would resent having someone else's child interrupt or need help or something. For me it would defeat the purpose of packing all my stuff up and hauling it to a crop. I can stay home and take care of a kid for free.

I hear your concerns and the fact that you are acknowledging the positives of this girl shows that you are seeing the entire picture, which is admirable.

It can be hard to voice your feelings but I think its more of a mistake to let them build or keep you from attending the crop. You should be able to go with out having to worry if your project or supplies might be ruined. That is stressful.

The Mom does need to be aware of her child and be the one who helps with the heat gun and all of the bathroom responsibilities. It gives her more teaching moments with her child.

I think a discussion with the Mom about what happened to you, in your tactful way that you display on these forums would be honest.

Then perhaps a suggestion to whoever is in charge that when we bring a guest we need to be responsible for our all of our guests needs.

I hope you get some resolution to the issues. I agree that there are probably others who are suffering in silence.

One of my friends brings her 9 year old to crops sometimes but it's just a group of 7 ladies and she is not disruptive at all. We crop in the cafeteria of my friend's workplace and there is green space outside where she can go and play if she gets bored.

Her mom is great about setting limits, nothing messy, and she has to commit to a certain time frame. Sometimes it's just a 1/2 day and then her hubby comes to get her.

I have never been bothered by her but OMG other kids at other crops.....NO WAY!!! I have been to a crop where one kid made me want to rip his head off....If I pay to be there, that kid better be almost invisible. PERIOD!

I host crops in my home every other month and I have always stated "No Children". Everyone has always respected my wishes and actually appreciate the children free scrap time. I've had a few ladies tell me they can't make a particular crop because they have no sitter, my response is "sorry hopefully next month."