WeR Cinch binding system review

I've only played for a few minutes but posted a review on my blog about some things that stood out for me. I had watched a few videos around CHA but there were still a couple surprises!

http://awildstrawberry.blogspot.com/2010/04/sois-it-cinch.html

I read your blog review and saw the video. It looks very interesting, but it's not something I would probably use.

I will keep my Bind It All thank you!

• txscrapaddict Said:

How does that not surprise me?

That looks cool. TFS.

I saw (and commented) on the cross post in the Product forum.

Personally, I wouldn't buy ANY binding system, because we have a big GBC binding machine at my office.

You can buy a cheap binding machine for around $50 at an office supply store. I don't understand why anyone would pay $100 for this. But, I guess the office ones aren't pink.

Linda- so enlighten me. are there office binders that allow me to turn the holes "off"? what about ones with holes big enough to still put a book ring through if I don't want to use coils/o-wires? what about round holes?? (I don't like the squared off ones)

if that is already out there then PLEASE...share a brand name we can go look for. I'd at least like to send friends to check them out first if that meets their needs. I've only found one friend who didn't mind the square/rectangular holes, so it's not just me. I don't want something that will always look like it was bound at Staples. I liked that this was much more versatile.

Our big GBC binding machine has the ability to turn holes off. It binds up to at least 14 inches.
The holes ARE rectangular, that doesn't change.

I don't know if any of the office machines have round holes.

I hadn't seen that item. Thanks for sharing.

I'm getting one and I think I'm going to like it. Hopefully the wires close better (round) on this machine than on the bind it all. I'm keeping both for the different hole types though.

I just used mine for the first time this weekend. I was very impressed!

ummm i'll keep to my bind it all as well.... sturdier by far.

I don't work for WeR or Zutter. So, just as consumer and not a designer, I am excited about the cinch. In addition to making rounded holes for books, it looks like I can use it to line up my eyelets for my pages.

gbc binders are meant to be used with binding combs not the coils. I wouldn't feel comfortable using work supplies for my personal use.

sarah:

I am curious. How is the BIA more sturdy than the cinch? I have not bought either, so I would love to hear the comparision on the two.

thanks.

• brohemx Said:

There are 'office' binding machines that use coils, not combs.

If YOU bought your own binding machine, how would this be using work supplies? It would be your own PERSONAL machine.
I was just saying that many of the products designed and marketed for scrapbooking are things that already exist (and are often less expensive).

If I buy my own binding combs or coils, I have no problem using the binding machine at my office (on my own time). THAT doesn't cost the company any money.

I don't have either but from the vids I've watched of both, the WRMK's seems much easier to operate than the BIA. I'd buy one if I could use a coupon!

• brohemx Said:

The person who made the comment designs for zutter so it might be a biased opinion but maybe not. I have never used either of them but I hear that the cinch is easier to use and punches more holes at once than the BIA.

I have the cinch and I love it!

I have the BIA and like it, but it really hurts my hands. I made an 8.5" x 11" notebook with about 50 pages a few weeks ago and I was in pain for a week. I have carpal tunnel, so I'm sure that exacerbated the problem, but I know a lot of people with carpal tunnel.

The Cinch looks like it wouldn't hurt as much to use.

it's not hard at all. I find it much easier than using the either of the Crop-a-Diles.

and just FYI I don't have any affiliation with WeR whatsoever. never tried for their DT or even spoken to anyone that works there. This was just *my* opinion.

I have a BIA and have had it for a few years now. Love it. But, if I didn't have a BIA, I would probably get the Cinch.

the BIA is sturdier in the sense that it's not flimsy plastic. ...and it's still smaller and portable.

i did read a comment about the wires not shutting all the way? are you referring to the seam on the outside... there's a way to hide it and make sure all your pages stay binded. check the zutter page for videos on how to use it.

also, it shouldn't be hard to press down on something with the BIA. pull out the support bar, stand up, and pull the handle down. it's pretty simple.

i personally like the rectangular punches as opposed to the circles because it looks more professionally done. circles can be achieved with a hole punch, so to me it looks amateur.

i'll be open and honest about this -- i'm a BIA designer, so of course I'm more biased towards the BIA.

i don't plan on being a cinch.

I too design for Zutter, however, I am a scrapbooker and instructor FIRST so since I have tried both machines, I will share my experience. And I am not PAID by Zutter.

At first I did not want a binding tool. I thought," Why spend all that money when I can go ti Kinko's and get stuff bound for under $5?"

Then I had a project, a calendar, not even a scrapbook, I wanted bound and Kinko's wanted to keep it OVERNIGHT to bind it. So I bought a Bind It All.

Over the next year I figured out how to use it. I refuse to read manuals or watch videos -- if I had done either of those things I probably could have saved myself some heartache. I ran into Nan Paturzo and Jessica Guthrie, then the "Zutter Zisters" at different events and they would give me pointers. Lord knows, I was not going to take a class either! LOL I finally figured it all out and now I am a binding Diva! LOL

If you take a moment to learn the machine -- either via a class, a friend, the videos, the dvd, or the manual, you can get perfectly round wires, bind any kind of project, and be a binding Diva too. It's just like the Crop A Dile--it is not intuitive and everyone tries to punch a hole with the part of the Crop A Dile that is for squishing eyelets. But once someone shows you what to do, you have an "a-ha" moment and then all is butter after that. Same with the Bind It All.

So let's compare the BIA and the Cinch. I have done my homework because I am asked this more and more often, especially in my Bind It All Boot Camp classes I teach. And this is me being objective, honest, crafter, not BIA Design Team person.

PRICE (MSRP)
Bind It All $74.99
Cinch $99.99

FOOTPRINT (how much room it takes up on table):
Cinch - about 1 square foot (12 square inches)
Bind It All - About 4 square inches

WIRES:
Both take wires with a 2:1 pitch so they are interchangeable

SQUISHING OF WIRES:
Bind It All has a set of plastic tabs that assist you in setting the machine to the exact setting for each wire size. Set the machine for the wire size you're using, Set the wires into the machine flat against the plate, press the handle on the machine all the way down, and the wires are squished perfectly round.

Cinch requires that you eyeball the wire from the side of the machine to see if they have squished enough. If you look at their ad in the current issue of Creating Keepsakes, the wires are oval shaped -- not round. This will interfere with proper turning of your pages. Also, when wires are squished (that's my technical term ) they actually need to squish beyond meeting and then they bounce back a little -- I have bound well over 500 books and I do not feel confident that I could eyeball this and get perfectly round wires if I were using the Cinch.

CHOOSING HOLES:
Bind It All - no way to "deselect" holes to be punched. However, there are creative ways to get a variety of hole arrangements, punch only 1 hole up to 6 holes at a time, etc. I know, I have done it. You can see lots of examples in my gallery and on my blog.

Cinch - You can choose your holes in any order you want. Consider this though: if you choose every other hole, your O-wires won't fit because they will have to bend apart, causing them to be non-functional - your book won't open. I guess you could use one loop of O-wire in each hole but that will be a mighty flimsy book. If you choose holes in sets of 2 or 3 in a row, then you need to cut up all that wire, making your project taking a crazy long time to bind. And if you're just going to use binder rings to bind your book, then why not save $100 and use the Crop A Dile to punch 3 holes in each page or whatever?

STURDINESS:
Bind It All - Outside housing is made of plastic but all the inner workings are METAL. They have a lifetime warranty. They never need any more maintenance than a simple hole punch--just empty the channel where the chads collect.

Cinch - I don't know the maintenance or warranty however, when I tired the Cinch, the pegs to pull in and out to select holes were flimsy, wobbly plastic and much of the machine was made of plastic. For $100, I want something that feels like $100.

HEALTH CONCERNS:
I have a Bind It All. And I have carpal tunnel, tennis elbow, and a back injury from a car accident I was in last year from which I am in constant pain. I stand up to use the Bind It All and I have no problems.

For the Cinch, even when the Cinch was on a bar height table, you have to crouch down to see the "wire squisher", putting extra strain on your neck and back. Besides that, if you are using a bar height table, your core has to be really strong and your arms very strong to support you pressing that handle from near your head down to punch the holes. Unless you're going to use two different tables for your Cinch -- one to punch and one to squish. I fail to see what carpal tunnel has to do with either machine--you can press the BIA or the Cinch handle with your hand out flat if you want or while wearing a brace.

HOLE SHAPE:
Cinch - Round Holes. Cute, like the Heidi Swapp Spiral Bound albums from a few years back.

BIA - Rectangle hole.

Why does this matter? Well, if you make a mistake using the Cinch, there is no forgiveness; the wire fits snugly in that round hole. I do alot of books where I eyeball stuff and sometimes things are just a hair off. If I were to do that with the Cinch, my book would be trash cuz the pages would be extremely stiff to turn, if at all. With the Bind It All, my wire can move just a little to one side or the other, giving me room for errors.

PUNCHING CHANNEL:
Bind It All -- you can decorate your pages up to about 1" from the edge of the page you want your holes on. I have punched all kinds of bulky things--as long as 1" of material can fit in that channel (which is only 3/4" deep), it does not matter if the rest of my item is literally shaped like a beach ball.

Cinch - One entire side of your item must be flat in order to punch it. You have to lay your item parallel to the table and slide it into the channel on the Cinch that way, so you can only have bulk on one side. So you either don't punch bulky stuff, punch before you assemble and decorate, or buy both machines.

So there you have it I just wanted to share because this topic comes up at alot of stores here and in my classes. I think it really boils down to one thing: Is choosing the number of holes that get punched worth an extra $25 and the possibility of having ugly wires?

Heidi,

Have you ever tried the Bind It All?

I love my Bind-it-All!

In the video the pegs you have to pull in and out on the Cinch got stuck so I can see that being a problem. I also don't like that you have to bend over the back of the machine to bind your book together. I'll stick with my BIA!!

well said jen. thanks for all of your input. you def showed a great comparison.

I am also on the Zutter Zister DT....

I have used the Cinch....I found that the bending over and eyeballing "binding" really didn't work for me...I tried several times and not once could I get a round nicely crimped O Wire where as on the Bind it All...I don't have that problem.

As far as being creative with the holes...think it out and you can achieve many different creative binding looks...

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents!!

I guess it shouldn't.....I would NEVER endorse a product I have never tried myself or one that doesn't work for me. I have not tried the Cinch. I have TWO Bind It Alls. Use them all the time, love them both. That is my only point.

Very excellent comparison Jenn!

• Bxr-Linda Said:

absolutely true. i have never had an employer tell me no on something like that. I often used my companies fax machine, binding system, die cutter (before the world of sizzix machines and the like) and such. i just supplied my own paper and asked permission. never ever a problem.

Ok, so I may rub some people the wrong way, but I think the comparison only glorified one product and had nothing positive to say about the other. Both machines from what I know (by use) and see have pros and cons as with anything. Like some people are all about the cricut while others like the pazzle. It basically boils down to preference. Some people like retangular holes while others prefer round. IMHO

As far as eye balling you can add a line/mark to the back as a guide and you will have a perfect bound book everytime. Problem solved.

• New2thisgame Said:

I did point out the places where the BIA falls short compared to the Cinch and the places where they differ. The round hole may be a look you like but I pointed out why the BIA hole is a rectangle -- there was a reason behind the design. You could have thw hole be shaped like a satr if you like, but that will interfere with functionality. That was the point I was trying to make, that there was a trade off with the round hole. I could use a Crop A Dile to punch round holes in my pages and then use the Bind It All to close the wires and I would still have the same issue as if I bound the book with the Cinch -- no forgiveness in the holes and no extra space for the wires to move.

It seems the Cinch's focus is on punching the holes--choosing how many to punch, a round hole versus the rectangle holes already available on the market, guides printed on the base of the machine for lining up your paper -- how the wires close seems an after-thought. And that, to me, is equally as important as punching the holes. The fact that you have to create your own marks on the side of the machine is sad--you should not have to do that. I have not had to supplement anything on my Bind It All with marks or guides.

I am human and cannot give a 100% non-biased review of either machine. But as one of the only people in this discussion who has used both machines several times, I feel that I can really give a thorough list of the pros and cons of each. I wasn't all roses about the BIA either--I did note where it didn't do the same stuff as the Cinch.

The discussion up to this point was pretty pro-Cinch and anti-BIA so we're all just trying to give the review of the other machine. The original poster linked to her blog where she did not want to get into a comparison of the Cinch and BIA but she also noted she only watched videos of each before making a purchase decision. Much like choosing diecut machines, like you mentioned, you really need to try it and what works for one person, may not work for another. However, as far as saying the Cinch is better than the Bind It All, the only ting that keeps coming up choosing holes and round holes -- but does it close the wires better? Does it have a bag for transporting? Is it heavy or is it easy to move around? There are alot of reasons, whether I was on the BIA design team or not, that I would keep my Bind It All.

If I were in the market for a machine right at this moment, I would have probably bought the Cinch--enticed by the ads and all the fervor about it, the round hole being different than what is already available, and how hard everyone is pushing it--it is "new". But then when I got home, I would be kicking myself cuz I would have spent and extra $25, my neck would hurt from bending over to see the wires close, I would have wasted money on wires that I messed up, my back would hurt from lugging it up onto my table, and I would have messed up punching the holes on quite a few books since I would have decorated before binding. And then when I went to a crop, my friends would have showed me the Bind It All and then I really would be kicking myself! And when I went back to the scrapbook store to get new wires, I would end up buying the Zutter ones since they come in more sizes and colors, are alot more affordable, and I get more in the box. And I would have ended up then getting a Bind It All too.

When I saw the Cinch at CHA I wanted to learn about it because I knew people would ask me about it. And I wanted to see what WeR did to compete with the Bind It All. Because that is really what the Cinch was all about. I wanted to see what they did to improve upon a product that had been on the market for 3 years. And for a higher price tag, the only pros being round holes and choosing holes, and the cons far outnumbering the pros (large footprint on table, no wire guides, few wire color and size choices, limitation on page decorations due to the way the pages fit into the machine to be punched, higher price) I really believe the Cinch is not a better choice than the Bind It All.

Well said Jenn! I love my BIA, and use it all the time. I do design for Zutter, but I loved this company even before I was on the DT. They donate lots of things to various charites for starters, and they have fantastic customer service. I can rest assured knowing that if something happens to any of my tools, they will assist me, regardless if I am on the DT or not. They stand behind their product, which as Jenn mentioned, is a wonderful thing. I don't about you, but I don't have spare cash to replace something that just quits working for no apparent reason! I can tell you from personal experience that I have had terrible CS from other scrappy companies (no names) and it is something I would never want to repeat.
In additon to tons of different minis, cards, flowers, and more, I have made lots of books to donate to the Pediatric floor at the hospital where I work, and I could not have done this w/o the easy peasy to use BIA. I love that my wires turn out perfectly shaped with little to no effort on my part, that the BIA is very small and portable (I take it to SewB and work on donation books instead of sewing, he he), that it is sturdy enough to punch through lots of surfaces, and that I can make weird or lumpy things work too. Trust me, I have boatloads of stuff in my scrappy space, and the BIA takes up very very little space ~ YAY! Know what else I love about my BIA? There is a great blog and ning site where there are projects, tips, and ideas posted for inspiration! There are always lovely projects to spark your creative juices. You can easily peek through the galleries and come up with your own faboo BIA project.
So that is my two and a half cents.

I am not sure where the bending over comes from, but the cinch has a setting so that the machine pushes the coils down to the right size. You don't have to bend over to watch your coils.

brohemx, at the CHA Trade Show in January WeR Memory Keepers was showing people how to use the Cinch, including me, and they said you have to look at the wires as you press the handle down to close them to make sure close--the only way to do this is to look at them from the side, bending over. Other people doing the make n take were complaining about having to bend over and I remember this as one of the MAJOR differences between Cinch and BIA. I don't know if they changed the design but the machine I used at CHA and the ones at the LSS here don't have any settings or measurements--you have to look at the wires from the side to make sure they are closed.

The settings are on the side where you cinch your wires. That why they have those settings 3/4, 1, and 1 1/4.

That's what they are for.

Well, I stand corrected - there are settings, as seen in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6Tb5Dg005s

When I was at CHA they did not demo the settings to me and the group I was with -- they only showed how to squish the wires (I actually did it) and said to watch to make sure I did not squish them too far.

However, you still have to watch the wires as they are closing -- in the video you will see that they squished the wires too far, there is a kink in them, and then they have to pull the wires apart by hand. So what was the point of setting the machine to a setting if you still have to eyeball it?

yes, that would be a big problem. I am still trying to decide between the two. I have not bought either one yet.

The other thing I noticed about the BIA is that it goes smaller than 3/4 inch. I have already purchased some wires and they are smaller than 3/4. It looks like I cannot bind them with the cinch, but I could with the BIA.

Does the BIA have the hooks on the side to hang your pages while you punch?

As stated in an earlier posting, you could add marks so you don't have to "eye ball" it. I have no problem customizing a product if it enhances or assists me. I guess it is the same as adding salt to a meal at a resturant even though it has seasoning on it already. You season it to your own personal taste so to speak.

I have both machines and I like both for different reasons. If you were only going to get one machine I would say it depends on what type of books you're making . . . the Cinch punches more holes at once than the BIA (better IMO for big books)- but the BIA can make big books too. For smaller books the BIA is better hands down, and you can bind smaller than 1/2". The Cinch binding mechanism starts at 5/8" and to do smaller you have to put a wedge (a ruler works). I do like the option of the pegs on the Cinch because there are times I want to bind the edges and middle (I like this effect). I also like the larger base on the Cinch (paper lays flat when punching). As for binding on these machines, both take getting use to. I also will agree the BIA seems more sturdy than the Cinch.

Stacy the BIA doesn't have hooks to hang your pages and to be honest I haven't used the hooks on the Cinch (because I forget they're there)

I've used it a few times now and haven't had any issues with the wires smooshing weird. the knob on the side is used to set it to the correct diameter before closing the wires. I don't have to bend down weird. LOL I've embellished the pages fairly close to the edge and things went fine(I honestly didn't get out my ruler though LOL maybe I should!) I embellish heavily too but as most books go you don't want to do that near the binding since that takes up space in the spine.

I don't need it to be portable. you *could* take it to a crop though. It actually has a secure handle for carrying even. it's got a smaller footprint than my narrow platform Tonic guillotine. a bit smaller than my Big Shot.

as far as the round holes not letting pages turn easily. I've not experienced that at all. and honestly I'm not even sure I really understand what could lead to that happening since the holes are always the same distance apart (unless you turn holes off). I have used the rectangular office binders though and see how they offer more space. I'm just not exactly sure why one would think that is necessary. if the pages turn fine than that is all that is important right? not excessively big holes.


I did like the hooks on the side of the Cinch though and have used them.

and I'm not sure why people keep saying the Cinch pegs feel "flimsy". I've used two Cinches and neither felt that way. They are just knob covers, they aren't part of the actual mechanism. Inside the pink peg cover is a steel or aluminum rod (I can't tell which it is though) they are just there to make it a little easier to grab ahold of the rods. There is some "play" in there but looking inside the machine you can see it is just so the pegs are able to move in and out of the hole selector more easily (so you can turn them on and off). too tight and you would have a hard time pushing them in because of surface friction. Ok sorry I took mechanical drafting for many years so I tend to pay more attention to how things work than is normal for most women LOL

So, peg covers are plastic but other than the platform (which is reinforced with steel bars) that is the only "functional" plastic on the machine. the rest is only there to "cover the ugly". the punching mechanism appears to be just as well made as the Crop-a-dile. It did tumble down the stairs and made it. My DH steals my CAD on occasion and uses it for stuff in the garage. Not many of my tools would I allow him to do that with!


I've also heard better reviews about WeR's CS than Zutter's (both online and from friends who have been in the industry for many years) and that *has* influenced my decision a bit as to which company it'd prefer dealing with if something should go wrong.

just wanted to add that I posted a minibook on my blog that I made with the Cinch if anyone cares to see that the wires are not all smooshed and weird

http://awildstrawberry.blogspot.com/2010/05/meet-me-at-fair.html